Roedy Green

The Olson timezone database is no more. An astrology company,
Astrolabe, sued him, and he did not have the resources to fight back.

So for now, nobody is keeping track of timezone changes. Java uses
that database.

A hope Anonymous soon gets round to putting these unprintables out of
business.

see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/timezone.html for details.
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com
One of the most useful comments you can put in a program is
"If you change this, remember to change ?XXX? too".

Eric Sosman

On 2/14/2012 9:28 PM, Roedy Green wrote:
> The Olson timezone database is no more. An astrology company,
> Astrolabe, sued him, and he did not have the resources to fight back.

... as reported in "The Register" -- four months and one
week ago. In other news, rebels against the Crown are causing
minor disturbances in some of the North American colonies.

> So for now, nobody is keeping track of timezone changes. Java uses
> that database.
>
> A hope Anonymous soon gets round to putting these unprintables out of
> business.

You call for acts of vandalism, not only in this newsgroup but
also on your web site? IANAL, but ISTM that "incitement to offend"
is itself an offense/offence in some jurisdictions. And even if it's
not actually illegal, it is immoral and despicable to summon hoodlums
to enforce your own ideas of Right. Vigilantism is not justice.

I hope you will post a retraction here, and remove the "Burn
their houses down" message from your site.

--
Eric Sosman
esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid

Roedy Green

On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 23:01:14 -0500, Eric Sosman
<esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
someone who said :

>
> I hope you will post a retraction here, and remove the "Burn
>their houses down" message from your site.

What I said is already far milder than what I think. This sort of
behaviour in inexcusable, and in the service of ASTROLOGY!!! splutter!

--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com
One of the most useful comments you can put in a program is
"If you change this, remember to change ?XXX? too".

Roedy Green

On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 23:01:14 -0500, Eric Sosman
<esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
someone who said :

> ... as reported in "The Register" -- four months and one
>week ago. In other news, rebels against the Crown are causing
>minor disturbances in some of the North American colonies.

The link is on my site, so I am aware of that. Today is an important
milestone in the story. JDK 1.7.0_03 came out -- the last version of
Java to use the Olson database.

This sort of information comes out well ahead of the implementation,
so JDK 1.7.0_03 can have current timezone data even though Olson was
shut down last year.

However, the entire computing community has a problem. Unless these
bastards are sued out of existence, the entire existing Olson database
is in legal limbo. It might require rebuilding it from original
sources in a clean room. But of course it might not exactly match the
existing data. This is a nightmare. The only proper solution sending
them packing. I suppose Oracle could settle, but that would really
gall me. Astrolabe could then SELL this database over and over to
everyone who needs timezone data. It would be outrageous that they
would profit from such a deliberately malicious act. They can bully an
individual like Olson, but surely not Oracle, IBM, ... I want them
punished.


--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com
One of the most useful comments you can put in a program is
"If you change this, remember to change ?XXX? too".

Eric Sosman

On 2/14/2012 11:41 PM, Roedy Green wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 23:01:14 -0500, Eric Sosman
> <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
> someone who said :
>
>>
>> I hope you will post a retraction here, and remove the "Burn
>> their houses down" message from your site.
>
> What I said is already far milder than what I think. This sort of
> behaviour in inexcusable, and in the service of ASTROLOGY!!! splutter!

You promote vandalism. That's all I need to know.

--
Eric Sosman
esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid

David Lamb

On 15/02/2012 7:53 AM, Eric Sosman wrote:
> On 2/14/2012 11:41 PM, Roedy Green wrote:
>> On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 23:01:14 -0500, Eric Sosman
>> <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
>> someone who said :
>>> I hope you will post a retraction here, and remove the "Burn
>>> their houses down" message from your site.
>>
>> What I said is already far milder than what I think. This sort of
>> behaviour in inexcusable, and in the service of ASTROLOGY!!! splutter!
>
> You promote vandalism. That's all I need to know.

I can't condone vandalism either, but if Roedy had said "let's use
whatever legal means we can find to fight back" I'd have agreed
enthusiastically. Creating/joining an Olson Database Legal Defence Fund
might make sense.

markspace

On 2/14/2012 6:28 PM, Roedy Green wrote:
> The Olson timezone database is no more. An astrology company,
> Astrolabe, sued him, and he did not have the resources to fight back.
>
> So for now, nobody is keeping track of timezone changes. Java uses
> that database.
>
> A hope Anonymous soon gets round to putting these unprintables out of
> business.
>
> see http://mindprod


I'd rather not see your mindprod site, as I prefer reliable sources.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tz_database#2011_lawsuit>

"2011 Lawsuit

On September 30, 2011, a lawsuit, Astrolabe, Inc. v. Olson et
al.,[11][12] was filed concerning copyright in the database. As a
result, on October 6, 2011, the database's maintenance (mailing list)
and dissemination (FTP site) operations were shut down.[13] The case
revolves around the use by the database maintainers of the atlases The
American Atlas by Thomas G. Shanks and The International Atlas by Thomas
G. Shanks and Rique Pottenger. It specifically complains of unauthorised
reproduction of the atlases' data in the timezone mailing list archive
and in some auxiliary link collections maintained with the database, but
doesn't actually point at the database itself. The complaint relates
only to the compilation of historical timezone data, and does not cover
current tzdata world timezone tables.[12][14][15] The tz database
clearly references its sources, including the atlas, in comments,
allowing the extent of use of the data to be evaluated.[16][17]
[edit] Move to ICANN

ICANN took responsibility for the maintenance of the database on October
14, 2011.[18] The full database (including allegedly-infringing
sections) and a description of current and future plans for its
maintenance are available online from IANA.[19]"


So the upshot is that it got moved to IANA, and the lawsuit really just
complains about some data in the mailing list and links to other sites.
The database itself is fine. Do some research next time before going
off half-cocked.

RedGrittyBrick

On 15/02/2012 13:45, David Lamb wrote:
> On 15/02/2012 7:53 AM, Eric Sosman wrote:
>> On 2/14/2012 11:41 PM, Roedy Green wrote:
>>> On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 23:01:14 -0500, Eric Sosman
>>> <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
>>> someone who said :
>>>> I hope you will post a retraction here, and remove the "Burn
>>>> their houses down" message from your site.
>>>
>>> What I said is already far milder than what I think. This sort of
>>> behaviour in inexcusable, and in the service of ASTROLOGY!!! splutter!
>>
>> You promote vandalism. That's all I need to know.
>
> I can't condone vandalism either, but if Roedy had said "let's use
> whatever legal means we can find to fight back" I'd have agreed
> enthusiastically. Creating/joining an Olson Database Legal Defence Fund
> might make sense.
>

Haven't IANA taken over?

http://www.iana.org/time-zones

--
RGB

RedGrittyBrick

On 15/02/2012 17:31, RedGrittyBrick wrote:
> On 15/02/2012 13:45, David Lamb wrote:
>> On 15/02/2012 7:53 AM, Eric Sosman wrote:
>>> On 2/14/2012 11:41 PM, Roedy Green wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 23:01:14 -0500, Eric Sosman
>>>> <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
>>>> someone who said :
>>>>> I hope you will post a retraction here, and remove the "Burn
>>>>> their houses down" message from your site.
>>>>
>>>> What I said is already far milder than what I think. This sort of
>>>> behaviour in inexcusable, and in the service of ASTROLOGY!!! splutter!
>>>
>>> You promote vandalism. That's all I need to know.
>>
>> I can't condone vandalism either, but if Roedy had said "let's use
>> whatever legal means we can find to fight back" I'd have agreed
>> enthusiastically. Creating/joining an Olson Database Legal Defence Fund
>> might make sense.
>>
>
> Haven't IANA taken over?
>
> http://www.iana.org/time-zones
>


http://www.icann.org/en/news/release...14oct11-en.pdf

October 14, 2011

For Immediate Release

ICANN to Manage Time Zone Database

The Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) today
took over operation of an Internet Time Zone Database that is used by a
number of major computer systems.

ICANN agreed to manage the database after receiving a request from the
Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF). The database contains time zone
code and data that computer programs and operating systems such as Unix,
Linux, Java, and Oracle rely on to determine the correct time
for a given location. Modifications to the database occur frequently
throughout the year.

"The time zone database is used by a large number of commercial
operating systems and the software applications,� said Russ Housely,
chairman of the IETF. “Incorrect time zone information will impact
many everyday activities, including meeting and conference call
coordination, airplane and train schedules, physical package delivery
notices, and astronomical observatories."

For nearly three decades, the TZ Database had been maintained by a group
of dedicated volunteers, in particular, Arthur David Olson at the US
National Institutes of Health. Olson coordinated the group,
managed the data, and created a platform for their release.

Olson’s announced retirement prompted the IETF to turn to ICANN to
ensure continued operation of the database. "The Time Zone Database
provides an essential service on the Internet and keeping it operational
falls within ICANN’s mission of maintaining a stable and dependable
Internet,� said Akram Atallah, ICANN's Chief Operating Officer

--
RGB

Jeff Higgins

On 02/15/2012 12:31 PM, RedGrittyBrick wrote:
> On 15/02/2012 13:45, David Lamb wrote:
>> On 15/02/2012 7:53 AM, Eric Sosman wrote:
>>> On 2/14/2012 11:41 PM, Roedy Green wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 23:01:14 -0500, Eric Sosman
>>>> <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted
>>>> someone who said :
>>>>> I hope you will post a retraction here, and remove the "Burn
>>>>> their houses down" message from your site.
>>>>
>>>> What I said is already far milder than what I think. This sort of
>>>> behaviour in inexcusable, and in the service of ASTROLOGY!!! splutter!
>>>
>>> You promote vandalism. That's all I need to know.
>>
>> I can't condone vandalism either, but if Roedy had said "let's use
>> whatever legal means we can find to fight back" I'd have agreed
>> enthusiastically. Creating/joining an Olson Database Legal Defence Fund
>> might make sense.
>>
>
> Haven't IANA taken over?
>
> http://www.iana.org/time-zones
>
Browsing a tz mailing list archive, available here:
<https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/tz>,
I see no calls for vigilantism. Shame, Roedy.

I was happy to be made aware of the issue and
to get a glimpse of the complexities involved.
<http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2011-October/008156.html>